Interview with Alex Larounis
Introduction
I interviewed my father, Alex Larounis, on November 20, 2022. As this Immigrant Stories project was initially introduced in class, the story of my father is one that is so unique, I knew his story needed to be told. I had heard about the history of my father’s cultural integration into America, notably because, not only was he an immigrant himself, but his parents were from Greece. In a way, my father always said that he was a “double immigrant,” no matter the inaccuracy of that statement. He had always said that moving to the United States was an adjustment but being a dual American allowed him to bypass the learning curve that came with being a non-citizen. My father emigrated from France, where his parents were working on a United States Army base in Saint-Nazaire. Due to my father being born in a hospital unaffiliated with the army base, my father only has a French birth certificate, but has United States citizenship as a dual citizen. What makes my father’s story so unique is that he grew up in a household that was largely Greek, as both of his parents emigrated from Greece to the United States before they became naturalized and joined the United States Army.
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The Greek Influence from My Grandparents
The backstory of my father’s parents is what allowed my father to have such a cultural influence throughout his entire life.My grandparents emigrated from Greece at a young age, seeking a home in the United States in order to pursue education and a bright future in their upcoming careers. What I found interesting through my interview was that my father did not resonate as much with the French culture that he grew up in, but rather the Greek influence that my grandparents had instilled from a young age. Despite being located in France physically, my grandparents continued to speak the Greek language, cook the Greek food, and associate with all Greek-oriented culture, rather than assimilating to the French or American influence that they were surrounded by for many years.
The French Influence on my Father’s Life
The reasoning for my father’s birth in France was due to my grandparents, as my grandfather was a Captain in the United States Army. My father’s atypical experience as an immigrant gave him a story unlike any that I had heard before: comfortability in an unknown country. Partially because my father immigrated at such a young age, and partially because he w
as already accustomed to American culture after living on a United States Army base, my father knew largely what it was to be an American. He didn’t recollect any particular times in which he felt like an outcast, but could remember times in which his parents and his grandparents were ostracized due to their culture. Despite the large number of Greeks that migrated during the 1900s, their neighborhoods and cultures continued to be excluded. One thing that my father did state was that being on an army base excluded one from meeting others of different ethnic backgrounds, as he had to continuously stay on base surrounded by similar people. He also stated that his family did not bring back any mementos from their time in France, as serving on an Army base prevented them from purchasing French furniture and goods. Being French, though, did not seem to shut out my father from the “white-picket” American experience. His accent was soon lost, and a New York accent took its place, showing that his assimilation as a child was seemingly swift.
New York as a Migrant Neighborhood
After my grandparents moved to the United States after emigrating to the United States from Greece, and after returning home from their time in Saint-Nazaire, they settled down in New York. While New York is commonly known as a location of diversity and ethnic culture, particularly, the Greek heritage and migrant neighborhoods were prominent. Astoria and Queens were the famous cities continuously inhabited by Greek immigrants, hoping to build networks that would welcome and embrace that Mediterranean culture. My father emphasized the language and the food being especially important in these neighborhoods, bringing people together through speech and common cuisine.
My father also emphasized how these neighborhoods have since changed since the mass migration that occurred in waves in the early 1900s. My father’s family moved to the Bronx after they had returned from France, and, soon enough, my uncles were born. My grandfather, previously a dentist for the U.S. Army, continue his practice in New York, where he had a large clientele that was Greek. My father stated, “There weren’t too many Greek speaking dentists… patients would come to him… they felt comfortable with him because he spoke the language” (Alex, 00:14:28).
Greek neighborhoods have dissipated largely within particular New York cities, such as Queens and Astoria, and has since been replaced by the scattering of Greek residents and restaurants throughout the city. In addition, since then, there have been many Greek migrants who have since procreated, and their children have moved away from the hustle and bustle of New York due to the lack of resonation for the Greek culture that was once prominent. Since, many immigrant children have moved all over the country, and all over the East Coast, particularly.
The Greek Church
In addition to the neighborhoods that highlighted Greek culture in a multitude of ways, the Greek church was something that my father heavily emphasized as a stronghold of Greek culture and religion. Everything centered around the Greek church: friendships, support systems, food. It was stated that when his family returned to the United States from France, the Greek church was what allowed them to smoothly integrate into American society from their long time on foreign soil. In fact, my parents met in the Greek church, and due to various ties, they ended up going on a few dates, and were married about half-a-year later. I, myself, was baptized in a Greek Orthodox church, so I resonated heavily with the words that my father spoke during our conversation.
Another aspect of our conversation that brought back memories of my childhood surrounded Archbishop Iakovos, and his close friendship
with the Larounis family. Archbishop Iakovos was the primate of the Greek Orthodox Archdiocese of North and South America at the time that he was best friends with my grandparents. I remember my father detailing the many dinners and coffee chats with Archbishop Iakovos growing up, and remembered the distinguished man who was always proper, coming into his home and laying down on the couch to catch a quick nap. The dichotomy and the allowance to see into his personal life was something that seemed to shape my father and lead him closer to the Greek church as he grew. Archbishop Iakovos was largely known for his support of civil rights, and walked with Dr. Martin Luther King in Selma, Alabama. My father has a copy of this Life magazine, that he takes pride in. It seemed that the archbishop allowed my father to seek the Greek religion that he felt so close to, while supporting politically.
Conclusion
After our interview, I continued the conversation with my father about the more politically-based aspects of immigration today. What struck me during our interview is that he stated that if his parents were not allowed the opportunity to migrate to the United States in order to seek a better life, then I would not be sitting here today. My father was given the political and
economic opportunity to be an American citizen from birth, but his identity as being both emigrating from France, and resonating largely with the Greek culture, gave him a story unlike many others. Rather than allowing his dual citizenship to be a question of identity, my father has embraced the roots in which he originated, and he still has not forgotten the principles that have raised him: the French, the Greek, and the American values that he holds true.
Immigrant Stories Project: Alex Larounis
Marie: Okay. Hi, my name is Marie Larounis and I’m here with my dad, Alex Larounis. Do you wanna kinda explain who you are, where you migrated from, at what age, and kind of start there?
Alex: Um, this is Alex Larounis. Hello everyone. Um, I, I immigrated from actually France. Um, and there’s a story behind that. Um, but, uh, I came here as a child and, uh, my dad, uh, uh, immigrated from uh, Greece. Uh, uh, the backstory is he immigrated from Greece, uh, uh, during his, uh, education years – high school. He went to college here, uh, dental school and practiced as a dentist in the United States Army, stationed in France. And, uh, my parents were living there. Dad was an officer. He was a captain in the US Army and they had a house there. And, and, and, uh, I, I was born there and lived there for a few years and emigrated to the United States. Um, our background was, was of a Greek background because that’s where our family was originally from, uh, we ate the foods, spoke the language at home. Ice, ice cream. I, I speak Greek. And, uh, uh, you know, customs, the religion, uh, all carry through with me to this day.
Marie: Right. Yeah. Cool. Okay, we’ll talk more about that in a little. Um, I guess just kind of the, um, introductory to it. People talk about push factors, they talk about pull factors. What led to your migration, what pulled you to migrate. You don’t necessarily have those because , your dad migrated from, from Greece. And that led to, to almost a job in France. So you’re push and pull factors were very, were very career based. You didn’t really have a pull to migrate necessarily. Mm-hmm. , I mean, what are, what are your kind of thoughts on that?
Alex: Uh, yeah. Um, I came as a child, right? My father, my father’s work, obviously is a dentist in France.
Marie: Right.
Alex: Um, and, uh, I, I have a, uh, uh, to this day, a, uh, French, uh, right, uh, a French birth certificate. Um, which, uh, was issued by the, uh, French government and, uh, is all written in French. Right. Uh, occasionally I have to show that here in the United States and it’s always, uh, perplexing for some people because they don’t speak French. Uh, but yes, I have a French, uh, French birth certificate.
Marie: Sure.
Alex: And, uh, I, you know, I obviously grew up here in, in, in the States.
Marie: Right.
Alex: Uh, educated, uh, myself have, uh, went through a master’s program, a bachelor’s and master’s program, and became a, uh, certified public account.
Marie: Right. At what age did you, did you migrate from France?
Alex: Well, as a child.
Marie: As a child.
Alex: As a child
Marie: Cool.
Alex: Um, exact age probably, uh, um, would’ve been in like the primary grades.
Marie: Okay So that assimilation factor was, was you, you came at a young age, you already knew English, um, because you were a dual citizen, I assume.
Alex: Believe it or not, I am.
Marie: Right.
Alex: A dual citizen, yes.
Marie: As far as language wise, you learned English and French.
Alex: I speak a lot of Greek, believe it or not.
Right.
Because of the family. Because of your dad, right? Cause of the fam My both my parents are Greek.
Marie: Right.
Alex: Uh, I speak a lot of, I speak a lot of Greek. Uh, that’s what was, we spoke in the household.
Marie: Um, but you learned English at a young age.
Alex: Oh, sure,
Marie: Sure. Okay.
Alex: Sure. Sure. Um, yeah.
Marie: Yeah. Um, cool. So we’ll kind of move on. Immigrants tend to go where other immigrants are. Right. Do you believe that you kind of followed that stereotype? Do you think that there was a large network of Greek immigrants that your parents associated with? Because you don’t really, from my understanding, you don’t necessarily connect yourself with the kind of French culture, heritage. You connect yourself more with the Greek heritage that your dad has.
Alex: I do, and that is a true statement. People do assimilate when they come to the United States,
Marie: Right. Greek neighborhoods and…
Alex: Greek neighborhoods and, and specifically, uh, uh, they, they wound up in New York.
Marie: Mm-hmm.
Alex: And there are Greek communities in New York
Marie: Right.
Alex: Uh, Astoria and Queens being the famous one. Uh, there are other areas in Brooklyn, uh, that, that when they come over from Europe, right. They really don’t know anything about the culture, et cetera. But there are other people of similar thought. That have their religion, that speak their language. Maybe there were Greek restaurants around. And that would be the case in Astoria and Brooklyn. And that’s where the immigrants would come initially. And then once they got their feet on the ground, you know, sometimes they, they moved to other areas or, like my dad went to dental school.
Marie: And what dad, what neighborhood did your dad grow up with? Did he grew up in a, in a Greek neighborhood or Brooklyn?
Alex: Brooklyn.
Marie: Okay. Brooklyn. And it had a large Greek culture?
Alex: Yes.
Marie: It did. Okay, cool.
Alex: Yes. Not as big as Astoria. In Queens, which probably people are more familiar with, but yes.
Marie: Right. Okay. Cool.
Alex: Uh, and that’s why people, a lot of the immigrants wound up in New York because they’re, you know, people of like mind. Right. And very obviously this was many years ago.
Marie: Since then, have those, have those neighborhoods kind of dissipated a bit?
Alex: Yes.
Marie: They have dissipated.
Alex: They’ve changed.
Marie: Okay.
Alex: They’ve changed.
Marie: They’re no longer Greek influenced? Or they’re Greek influenced, but not…
Alex: The children of the immigrants have moved to other areas,
Marie: You’re an example of that, right?
Alex: Have dispersed, we live in Pennsylvania. Uh, uh, the, the children of the immigrants have dispersed through, through, through the country to other areas. And it’s not, it’s not the same as it was when people initially came over. Uh, and they needed, I’ll use the word support. Sure. The language, the food, the culture.
Marie: Yeah, absolutely.
Alex: Uh, as the next generation came on board, they necessarily, they didn’t necessarily wanna stay in Astoria, let’s say or in Brooklyn.
Marie: Right.
Alex: They moved to Long Island. They moved to Pennsylvania.
Marie: Sure, sure, sure.
Alex: Or all over the country.
Marie: Sure. Okay, cool. Cool. Um, how were those areas, because your dad was in that population that moved to a Greek neighborhood primarily. How does that area in which you moved were separate, or excuse me, receptive to immigrant populations?
Alex: Oh, very, very much so.
Marie: Was it only Greek culture that was, that was brought in?
Alex: No. There, there, there.
Marie: I mean New York in general is a very diverse…
Alex: the neighborhood was very diverse.
Marie: Right, sure.
Alex: Um, but, uh, there was everything, a lot focused on the Greek church, believe it or not.
Marie: Okay. Interesting.
Alex: Uh, not only for religion, but for support in other areas because that’s where the people spoke the language.
Marie: Sure.
Alex: And that’s where the friends were. So it all centered around the Greek church, so, even though there were other immigrants from other countries in the neighborhood. The, the, the Greek aspect of it focused on the church. And, and that’s where that, that cultural exchange would happen mainly.
Marie: Okay.
Alex: Uh, through the church, believe it or not.
Marie: Yeah. Well, we can move into that a little bit. How did the Greek, did you, did you, um, resonate with the Greek church? Did you grow up with the Greek church? How did that impact your life?
Alex: Yes, yes. Uh, I, I speak Greek.
Marie: Yeah.
Alex: Um, and, and I grew up in the, in the, in the Greek church.
Marie: Right.
Alex: Uh, and I practice as a Greek Orthodox religion currently to this day. Sure.
Marie: Um, okay, cool.
Alex: And was baptized in the Greek Orthodox Church.
Marie: Right. Right. Despite moving from France, you still largely had that Greek influence, which is, which is interesting.
Alex: Absolutely.
Marie: Yeah, absolutely.
Um, so this. Kind of a repetitive question, but we’ll kind of go into it. It’s getting more kind of political based. Um, how were you received, where you went, how does your race being white and your migration from Europe to the US impact your experience as an immigrant as opposed to other race and ethnicities? I’m sure you can kind of get what I’m getting at a large, um, a large population of immigrants today are largely from Mexico or migrating from, not centrally Europe necessarily.
Alex: Uhhuh, , uh, I don’t remember a problem. Don’t remember any issues. I don’t remember any issues with regard to that in school. Right. Although I do remember stories of of of, of, you know, my parents and, and, and et cetera coming and there, there was still discrimination at that point.
Marie: Sure just because
Alex: Because of to the Greek community….
Um, I didn’t see it growing up, but the generation before me did, yes. There, there was, there was interesting. Uh, but my parents still thrived and went to educated and, you know, uh, went on from there. But yes, there were stories of discrimination.
Marie: Okay. Interesting.
Alex: Uh, but not, not, you know, within the… discrimination against the Greek culture.
Marie: Right, right. Absolutely.
Alex: Criticism was different, you know.
Marie: As opposed to today we have a connotation negatively. There’s a large stigma behind the idea of immigration. So it was more welcomed at that point, but still, as you say, it was, it was a different kind of discrimination.
Alex: Discrimination.
Marie: Gotcha.
Alex: But it was there. But, uh, yes. Uh, today it’s, uh, yeah, there’s. Many, many different issues. Sure. So, sure. Not to compare, compare the two necessarily.
Marie: Right, right, right.
Alex: But, uh, yes, it was to a certain degree.
There, there were issues. Yes.
Marie: Okay. Cool. Okay. How did your experience as a dual American impact your experience immigrating? Um, you were already accustomed to the language. We kind of got into that a little bit. Yes. And you were already accustomed to the culture before you immigrated. Did your parents expose you to American? I don’t know if there, I guess there is American culture while you were in France.
Alex: The, the, the basis of the, the Americanization, so to speak, happened I was, when I was young.
Marie: Right. Sure.
Alex: And it happened here. And, and that came from mainly school. Sure. Okay. Uh, that’s where I met my friends. And, uh, uh, that’s where the so-called Americanization sounds happened. I met a diverse population of people, different ethnicities. Uh, uh, that’s where I became, familiar with other cultures, et cetera.
Marie: But you had previously resonated largely with American culture. You felt comfortable coming here, integrating into the schools.
Alex: Sure.
Marie: Which at that point you were young. There wasn’t much integration…
Alex: No.
Marie: To happen because you were in the young grades.
Alex: No.
Marie: But you resonated largely with American…
Alex: Yes. Fit, fit right in your right here. Uh, uh, uh.
Marie: As opposed… I guess I’m getting to the point, as opposed to many immigrant stories where it was a large assimilation factor. They had to get to know the language, the culture, and the thus they moved into those i, those migrant neighborhoods that, that allowed them to come in with the culture that they previously had already
Alex: That was already done for me because my parents had gone through that experience.
Marie: Right, exactly.
Alex: Uh, so it was a little easier on me.
Marie: Sure.
Alex: Yes.
Marie: Sure. Okay, cool. Um, so I guess. I’m, I’m kind of making assumptions here. I can assume that your family received support from the US government while immigrating back into the United States. Your dad’s from Greece, he became naturalized. You went to France for quite a bit. I assume your parents were there for a bit.
Alex: My parents were working for the government. Right. My dad was a, uh, was a dentist. And he was a captain of the US Army.
Marie: Mm-hmm.
Alex: And was treating people on base who had, uh, dental problems.
Marie: Right.
Alex: Uh, mom was, uh, college educated and, uh, was, uh, was, uh, teaching on base. Uh, she had an education degree. She was doing some teaching on base. So they did work for the US government in that, in that aspect.
Marie: Right.
Alex: Um, and, uh, got support. That’s where they had their jobs.
Marie: Sure. Okay.
So how is that economically and kind of in regaining work opportunities when they came back? Obviously your dad was a dentist.
Alex: Yeah.
Marie: And he came back and continued his dental work, I assume?
Alex: Yeah. Uh, Dad came back, uh, to, came into the United States. Back from France. And obviously I was around at the time. At that point. And, uh, we lived in, uh, uh, we moved to the Bronx. One of the boroughs in, uh, New York City. And my dad opened up a dental office in Queens, another borough in the city. All being in the city of New York. Uh, and mom, uh, taught, uh, uh, my mom taught, uh, um, elementary school. Uh, in New York City. She was a, uh, certified teacher.
Marie: Cool. And I remember you saying previously to me before this interview that your dad worked, or excuse me, his clients or customers were largely Greek based.
Alex: Yes. Yeah, yeah. The patients he had, uh, because the big factor was, Of his Greek, uh, uh, he spoke French, uh, English, obviously, and, and fluent in Greek.
Marie: And Greek, yeah.
Alex: Uh, obviously.
Marie: Right.
Alex: Um, he had a big Greek, uh, um, clientele, so to speak.
Marie: Right.
Alex: There weren’t too many Greek speaking dentists.
Marie: Right. Sure, of course.
Alex: Uh, and, uh, he, he, uh, patients would come to him. Uh, they felt comfortable with him because he spoke the language.
Marie: Yeah, of course.
Alex: And that was, uh, that had a lot to do with it.
Marie: Sure.
Alex: Uh, that he was able to communicate with them. Yeah. Uh, in Greek. But, uh, um, that’s one of the things that drew some of the, many of the patients to him at the time.
Marie: Right. Sure. So I guess, how was that economically, coming back? I mean, your dad was in France for a while. Of course he worked the US Army. So economically it’s not much different. He was still getting paid by the US Army, I assume.
Alex: Yeah, whatever they got paid back then.
Marie: So economically he, he returned right back to work.
And so did your mom, so did your mom.
Alex: Went to work, um, immediately after coming back…
Marie: Mm-hmm.
Alex: To the United States. Like anything, had to open an office.
Marie: Sure, sure.
Alex: Get customer, patient base in his case as well.
Marie: Right.
Alex: And, uh, again, it grew because of the familiarity. Familiarity with the, the language. Yeah. Right.
Marie: Cool. Okay, cool. Um, did you feel that that Greek culture was emphasized while you were in France? Of course you were young, but your dad was from Greece. It, it had to come into the culture somehow.
Alex: He was, uh, and it did. Right. Uh, but more so when he, once he got settled as once we got settled as a family here in the United States, uh, and we joined the church.
Marie: Mm-hmm.
Alex: Uh, et cetera, it became more, moreso. More obvious, so to speak, right in the United States.
Marie: Right.
Alex: Um, living on base, there wasn’t, there wasn’t availability to, uh, to meet other people of the same ethnic background.
Marie: Yeah, sure, sure.
Alex: And that kind of thing.
Marie: Sure.
Alex: Churches were probably limited at that time where he was stationed. We were stationed in, uh, uh, they’re Saint-Nazaire and uh, I was born in La Rochelle. Um, but he, we lived in, uh, Saint-Nazaire. Um, you know, we didn’t have the, the exposure, so to speak, to, to the Greek culture as we would’ve here in Queens, in the Bronx, in New York City.
Marie: Right. So, was that more emphasized as you came back to, to New York?
Alex: To the United States? Yes.
Marie: Okay, cool. Yeah. Cool.
Alex: Here, here we had our church, we had our, you know, the friends, et cetera, who were Greeks.
Marie: Right.
Alex: Couldn’t necessarily find that in Saint-Nazaire or La Rochelle, you know what I’m saying.
Marie: Sure. Yeah. Absolutely.
Okay. So going back to your time kind of in France, did your parents bring back anything kind of as a momento of their time in France? I mean, was anything…
Alex: Well, they brought me .
Marie: Okay.
Alex: They brought me back. Just kidding, obviously. Yes.
Marie: Okay.
Alex: But that’s true.
Marie: Okay.
Alex: Um. Uh, being that they worked for the, uh, United States government, the army speci specifically, right. Uh, they didn’t bring back, uh, furniture.
Marie: Interesting.
Alex: Stuff like that.
Marie: Despite being there for so long.
Alex: They were already working for the, for the government.
Marie: Right.
Alex: Transferred back to the United States.
Marie: Sure. Okay. Okay. So why do you think that culture kind of dissipated. I mean, your parents resonated so deeply with kind of the Greek culture previously that they had come from, that the French influence almost became relevant or, I mean, you, you touched on that the, the Army kind of…
Alex: Well, uh, once they moved back to the United States, they had the Greek influence
Marie: Right.
Alex: And the French influence, uh, not so much.
Marie: Just kind of dissipated other than, other than me being, being from France.
Alex: Right.
Their background was Greek.
Marie: Mm-hmm.
Alex: And uh, and again, because of the difficulties where they were stationed, they didn’t have the Greek exposure…
Marie: Mm-hmm.
Alex: As we have here in the United States.
Marie: Mm-hmm.
Alex: But once they came back to the United States, they were exposed again to the church. Right. Et cetera.
Marie: Right.
Alex: Uh, being on an army base, you could appreciate…
Marie: Sure.
Alex: That you don’t, you don’t have that exposure.
Marie: Okay.
Alex: As much as you do like living in New York City today.
Marie: Yeah.
Alex: Sure.
Marie: Cool. Um, okay. So you speak so heavily on the fact that Greek culture is heavily number one influenced by family, and number two by religion.
How closely knit do you think were the ties between religion and family? Do you have any kind of stories or?
Alex: Very, very much so.
Marie: Yeah.
Alex: Um, um, the church is where it all happened.
Marie: Mm-hmm.
Alex: Um, it’s, um, when people, I think we’ve touched on this earlier, when people came to the United States, um, their first place to go was the church.
Marie: Right.
Alex: It’s where they, they found somebody who spoke their language, who ate their food, who, who, uh, practiced their same religion. It was a piece of home. Uh, in my case, as the years went on, uh, interestingly enough, my, my parents developed a friendship. What, what was the, uh, primate of the, uh, Greek Orthodox Church of North and South America. Uh, Archbishop, uh, Yacova. And, uh, um, that’s, uh, um, the person, if, if, uh, uh, the famous picture in Life Magazine on the cover.
Marie: Right.
Alex: Standing with Martin Luther King.
Marie: Right.
Alex: During the walk in Selma. Archbishop Yakovos became very close to my family. And I remember many, uh, frequent, uh, uh, meetings at our home.
He enjoyed coming out and that, so that was a piece of the church uh, uh, that, uh, I grew up in. Indirectly. Only because of his friendship with my parents.
Marie: Yeah.
Alex: And, and, uh, I remember specific, specifically, uh, um, looking forward to his, to his visits.
Marie: Cool. Yeah. I guess kind of going back to that family aspect, what were your holidays like growing up? Did, were you influenced by American holidays, French holidays, Greek holidays, all the above.
Alex: Right. Um, the, the holidays, um, the Greek Orthodox Church specifically. Right. And the, the, the, um, church, let’s say the Catholic church or the Protestant church. Same. Except. Except one big difference. And probably the only major difference between holidays, uh, Christmas was the same, let’s say.
Marie: Right.
Alex: Same. Um, Easter.
Marie: Yep.
Alex: Easter, uh, um, it, it was unusual to have it on the same day, I think every few years you, it has happened to be on the same day.
Marie: Sure.
Alex: But normally, uh, because of different calendars, the Greek Orthodox Church and the, the, uh, Catholic, Protestant church, uh, et cetera, um, would hold Easter on a different day and, and still does, uh, to this day.
Marie: Right.
Alex: Uh, and yeah. My understanding is they’re trying to, they’re trying to work that out. I just currently read that in the news.
Marie: Oh really? Oh, interesting.
Alex: That they’re trying to come to some sort of agreement where it’ll be the same, but growing up it was different.
Marie: Right.
Alex: It was different.
Marie: And I remember growing up with you, I, we also celebrated both American and Greek Easter.
Alex: Yes.
Marie: Um, can you speak more about kind of the traditions of Greek Easter, cuz. As you said, that kind of remains to be the only holiday where it differs between Americans and, and Greeks.
Alex: Yes.
Marie: Can you touch more on like maybe the services or what, what it is?
Alex: Yeah. The Greek, uh, Greek Orthodox Church, what we would do is, uh, obviously, uh, Easter’s on a Sunday, Easter Sunday.
Marie: Right.
Alex: Uh, would be Orthodox, uh, on the calendar. Uh, but the big event would happen Saturday night, uh, at midnight. There’d be a midnight mass. A very beautiful, uh, Greek Orthodox, uh, uh, service just approaching midnight and at midnight. At exactly midnight, you’d hear bells ringing. People would be lighting candles and uh, singing. Chanting. Um, and that would be the start of Easter Sunday would happen exactly at midnight, which would be very… obviously Saturday, right into, into, into Sunday. More very early, very early Sunday morning.
Marie: Uhhuh.
Alex: And that would be the start of the Easter.
Marie: Sure.
Alex: Uh, as far as church. The next day, well, which would be Sundays actually, it’d be the same day.
Marie: Right, right, right.
Alex: It’d be, uh, Sunday during the day. Right. Everything would revolve around, uh, food.
Marie: Right.
Alex: Typically. Leg of lamb.
Marie: Right, right, right.
Alex: Uh, that’s, that was on every Greek menu.
Yeah. Uh, uh, for Easter Sunday and, and, and still is. The lamb, potatoes, orzo, uh, wines, and you name it, it would, it would be a celebration, uh, um, Easter Sunday. Easter Sunday they’d have the traditional bread. Right? Uh, uh, it was a round loaf of bread, uh, and, uh, uh,
Marie: Tsoureki.
Alex: The tradition is whoever baked the bread, was usually home baked, they would wrap a quarter uh, in tinfoil.
Marie: Right. Right.
Alex: Put it into the dough and bake it within the bread. So you would cut the bread during Easter, everybody would get a piece of it.
Marie: Right, right, right.
Alex: Of the Easter bread. And whoever wound up with the quarter , good luck, would have good luck for the rest of the year.
Marie: Right.
Alex: Uh, and that tradition still goes on today.
Marie: Yeah.
Alex: Uh, that, uh, that they bake the coin into the, into the bread.
Marie: Yeah. Did you, did you ever get the coin? Yeah.
Alex: You got the coin?
Yeah. Yeah.
Marie: Sometimes, sometimes not.
Alex: Yeah, sure.
But, uh, it, it, it brought good luck to the, to the receiver of the coin.
Marie: For the next year?
Alex: Yeah.
Marie: Cool. Oh, nice. Okay, cool. Yeah, I remember it. Um, cool. So that kind of rolls into my next question. Um, Greeks are very for family oriented, obviously, and welcoming, but they’re especially welcoming in terms of food. From your own upbringing, I mean, I recognize that family gatherings and when people came to the house, it was always kind of a welcoming factor. You know, have some food, get together, we’ll eat together, type, type situation. Did you learn that from your family, from your parents? Where did you learn and you passed that down to me.
Alex: I spoke Greek at home.
Marie: Right, right. Um, in terms of the food.
Alex: Uh, the food. That’s, that’s what it was all about. Yeah. The Greeks love their food.
Marie: Right.
Alex: Uh, and that’s what it was all about. Music also.
Marie: Right.
Alex: Uh, I listened to to Greek music growing up. Uh, other kids would listen to, uh, uh, rock and roll and American music. We had, we had the Greek, uh, we had the Greek music.
Marie: Yeah, sure.
Alex: Uh, um, it was a, it was a big influence on, on my life.
Marie: Mm-hmm.
Alex: Um, albeit I was from France, obviously, but I had some interesting circumstances. So, uh, I had, uh, you know, the French and the birth and the, the Greek influence.
Marie: Right, right.
Alex: Mostly of my parents.
Marie: Right. I mean, I think we can go both speak on kind of the food. And obviously we’re very diversified in, in terms of our taste, but largely, there was a Greek influence. Mom was always a very good cook. She’d always make Greek food.
Alex: Absolutely. Yeah. Absolutely.
Marie: Did you learn that from your parents? Where did you learn that from?
Alex: Parents. And if they weren’t cooking it, they were going to a Greek restaurant to eat it.
Marie: Yeah.
Alex: Uh, and it revolved around relatives, going to see relatives who also were in. It was all about the food. And, uh, if we weren’t doing that, we would go on Saturday night to a Greek restaurant and, uh, uh, eat there. Yeah. Uh, so, uh, yeah, it was, uh, it was all about that.
Marie: And I mentioned mom, obviously. Yeah. She is also very Greek.
Alex: Yeah.
Marie: I mean, where, you know, where did you meet? Did you meet through, I mean obviously Greeks are very family oriented. Did you meet through family?
Alex: Through, through the church, through the church initially. St. Paul’s Greek Orthodox Church.
Marie: Sure, sure.
Alex: Uh, initially, um, and, uh, were married in that church, uh, and that was in New York. Now, of course, we’re living closer to Philadelphia here, in Pennsylvania.
Marie: Sure. Do you feel that Philly, I mean, this is kind of an opposing question from before, but do you feel like Philly has kind of that Greek influence, or do you think, I don’t know. I, I know that New York has a large basis.
Alex: New York, Philadelphia does have , uh, Greek influence. Uh, the big church.
Marie: Sure. Yeah.
Alex: In Philadelphia, uh, uh is the cathedral off Spruce Street. Mm-hmm. It’s, uh, uh, Saint George Greek Orthodox Cathedral.
Marie: Mm-hmm.
Alex: They do have a presence and they have some other churches in the, in the, uh, outlying areas.
Marie: Mm-hmm.
Alex: Um, not as much so as in New York.
Marie: Right. And you and mom kind of have a story of where you’ve moved and it’s a long story, but you didn’t necessarily seek out that kind of orthodoxy religion. As you decided where to move, there isn’t really a Greek church near here.
Alex: No.
Marie: But you continued the culture through food, through family.
Alex: Yes.
Marie: And through stuff like that, but the religion kind of dissipated a bit.
Alex: Yes.
Marie: And you still follow Greek Orthodox religion, but from afar.
Alex: Yes.
Marie: Right.
Alex: Uh, we live in Bucks County.
Marie: Right.
Alex: Uh, we don’t live in Center City, Philadelphia. Uh, maybe the closest Greek church, an hour.
Marie: Sure. Yeah.
Alex: Uh, so, but we, we haven’t forgotten our our, uh, roots.
Marie: And you still occasionally go back to the church, but not very often.
Alex: Absolutely.
Yeah. Uh, absolutely.
Marie: Cool.
Alex: We celebrate weddings and, and yeah. And baptisms…
Marie: The breaking of the plates and whatever. Yep.
Alex: Unfortunately, funerals, et cetera.
Marie: Yeah, sure.
Alex: Yes. We still keep that, we still keep that, uh, piece of it.
Marie: Sure.
Alex: And we celebrate the holidays, et cetera.
Marie: Cool.
Alex: And, and right now I’m looking at a…
Where we’re being interviewed, I’m looking at a Greek Orthodox icon.
Marie: Right.
Alex: We have on the mantel.
Marie: Right, right, right. Yeah.
Alex: So we, we, we haven’t forgotten our, our roots.
Marie: Absolutely.
Cool. Awesome. Okay, so you got the Greek culture largely from your parents. Can you talk. More about kind of your extended family or maybe your brothers or maybe your grandparents could be a good kind of start, cuz they obviously lived in Greece.
Alex: Sure, sure, sure. Um, my, uh, my dad’s parents before he immigrated, uh, were, were from, uh, a town, uh, in Greece called, uh, Kalavryta. In Greek we call it Kalavryta.
Marie: Mm-hmm.
Alex: It played a big role in the defense of Greece during World War II. Uh, very historic, uh, battles took place there, in Kalavryta. Uh, with regard to the defense of grease, but that, that’s originally where uh, my dad’s side was from. Uh, again, uh, uh, they were in the food industry, uh, uh, in Greece. Uh, mom’s, uh, side of the family came from a, an island called Samothraki. Uh, Greek Island. Uh, and interestingly enough, uh, I believe it’s in Paris, the Winged victory. Very famous Greek statue, which came from Samothraki, is in the, uh, is in the French, uh, museum. I believe in Paris, but it was originally from Samothraki, in Greece.
Marie: Oh, cool. Okay.
Alex: Uh, everybody, once they see it, will know, will know what that is. Uh, and that’s from Samothraki. And again, they were in the food, uh, food industry.
Marie: Mm-hmm.
Alex: Obviously food plays a big role in Greek culture.
Marie: Yeah, sure.
Alex: Whether they’re here in the United States or or in Greece.
Marie: Sure. What…
Alex: Kafenios were all over the place. We call Kafenios coffee shops, uh, play a big role even today in the Greek culture.
Marie: Yeah, sure. Um, what food industry was it? Restaurant – based? Do you remember?
Alex: Restaurant. Restaurant.
Marie: Restaurant-based.
Alex: Kafenios. Restaurant- based.
Marie: Sure.
Alex: So, uh, that, that, that’s the Greek aspect, uh, as far as my parents immigrating here and getting educated as we talked about, uh, I, I was from France and immigrated as a child. I have three brothers. Uh, um, who were born in the United States.
Marie: Oh, so you were the only born in France?
Alex: Yes.
Marie: Oh, interesting. Okay.
Alex: Yes. Okay. I have a, a, a, a brother, uh, younger than me became a, an attorney.
Marie: Sure.
Alex: A dentist and, and, uh, my younger brother, uh, became a, uh, chef.
Marie: Sure.
Alex: A chef owner of a restaurant.
Marie: Which is interesting because your grandparents were.
Alex: Right.
Marie: Right.
Alex: So we had to keep that, that in the line.
Marie: Right, right, right.
Alex: Uh, but they were all born in, in, in the United States.
Marie: Sure. And your other brother was a dentist, which follows your, your dad’s steps.
Alex: Dentist. Dentist, yes.
Marie: Yeah. Um, so you were born in, I’m sorry, Saint Nazaire, correct?
Alex: I was born in La Rochelle.
Marie: Born in La Rochelle.
Alex: Uh, we lived in Saint Nazaire. Um, I was born in, uh, La Rochelle.
Marie: Do you remember the reasoning as to why you were born in La Rochelle?
Alex: I do. I do. Uh, uh, Saint Nazaire was the base where dad worked as a dentist in the, in the, uh, clinic. Uh, addressing dental needs. He worked with medical doctors who addressed their medical needs.
Marie: Right, right, right.
Alex: It was like a medical…
Marie: Sure, sure, sure.
Alex: Clinic. And you know, obviously people had dental issues. Um, and, uh, that was, uh, in Saint Nazaire. How I wound up in La Rochelle, uh, uh, that’s where the big hospital was.
Oh, okay. Interesting. Okay.
I remember medicine was a little different back then.
Marie: Sure, sure, sure. Yeah. Right.
Alex: Uh, uh, they didn’t have the transportation immediately and this and that, right. So we went, um, my parents did once, once they knew things were happening, to the big US Army Base Hospital, uh, in La Rochelle. And my birth certificate is from La Rochelle. Again, written in French. But that’s, that’s how I wound up in, in La Rochelle.
Marie: So do you have an American birth certificate as well, because it was an American army base, or no?
Alex: No, no. It’s strictly French.
Marie: Interesting. Okay.
Alex: It’s not, it’s not, uh, American soil. An army base is not American soil. It’s not like an embassy.
Sure, sure, sure.
Uh, my, my, my, uh, birth certificate and I have it upstairs, is strictly in French.
Marie: Okay. But your passports are both?
Alex: I have an American passport.
Marie: Sure.
Alex: I can get a dual.
Marie: Oh, you don’t have a French passport. Got it.
Alex: I, I just thought that was extra paperwork.
Marie: Sure, yeah. Yeah.
Alex: But I, I am eligible.
Marie: Gotcha. Okay. Yes, because you are… yeah.
Alex: I’m very much eligible as a dual national.
Marie: Okay. Yes. Cool.
Alex: But no, I just have an American passport at this time. But I am eligible, or would be eligible.
Marie: Interesting. Okay. Cool. Um, cool. So we can kind of finish this up by talking kind of more politically about immigration today. Um, I mean, there’s such a stigma behind immigration today.
Sure.
Regarding kind of, it’s more an idea of the threat to US borders and kind of the concept of immigration, or excuse me, immigrants taking US jobs, um, no matter how inaccurate that is.
That’s right.
How would that kind of connotation of immigration be taken when you immigrated?
Alex: Well, uh, when I immigrated and especially my parents who, who obviously, uh, did good for society, uh, uh, brought up a family Sure, sure. I would…
Marie: Which can be said of many immigrants today.
Alex: Many immigrants today.
Marie: Right.
Alex: We have to give that chance to people today, the same chance my parents had. A thousand percent. And, uh, we have to keep our, uh, uh, our doors open and, uh, they wanna work hard. They want to build families just like my parents did, uh, when they immigrated right from Greece specifically. Um, it’s no different. People want to do good for their families and do good for society, and it’s no different today. People want a break, that’s all.
Marie: So why did your parents immigrate? Was it due to work? Did they want more kind of…. I don’t know.
Alex: They came from Greece and again, they got educated here.
Marie: Right, right.
Alex: My mom went to, uh, uh, um, Brooklyn College at the time, uh, uh, that, that generation, uh, a lot of the, uh, mothers, were not, were not going to college, believe it or not, that’s just a fact. Um, but she went and got her education degree and started teaching. And Dad, dad got his degree at NYU and started dentistry.
Marie: Right, right, right.
Alex: Uh, started to practice. But, uh, it was just for a new, you know. Kalavryta and Samothraki, the’re small towns, you know. They, they, they, they, they saw what was here. They read about what was here. And they wanted to be part of what was here. Just like immigrants today from Mexico, South Americas, they read about it the same way. And they want to be part, just like my parents did, that they wanna be part of the fabric of this country. Uh, things, you know. It may have been from France or Greece, but now it’s from Mexico, South America. Things haven’t changed. People want to be here. To be in fab… part of the fabric. To do good. To raise their families here, just like they did many years ago. From Samothraki and from Kalavryta.
Marie: And in the same way there are migrant neighborhoods. There’s largely, you know, Latinx neighborhoods as there were Greek neighborhoods, just as they were Greek neighborhoods.
Right. Exactly.
Alex: Things don’t change. You know, I mean, maybe the language changes, the food, the culture. But it’s all the same. People come and they go to the neighborhoods and they just like people did in Astoria years ago.
Marie: Right, right, right.
Alex: For the Greeks. Sure. In Queens, um, same thing today. And then, you know, they grow up next generation, maybe they move to different parts of the country, just like the Greeks did. Uh, Really, it’s really no different than it was years ago. Mm-hmm.
Marie: And your parents were lucky enough to get an education within the U.S.
Alex: Yes.
Marie: Which probably allowed them economic freedoms that they wouldn’t have otherwise had if they had. Immigrated post…
Alex: Oh, yeah.
Marie: Post, um, Greek education.
Alex: Yeah. The, the, the education, dad went to a big university.
Right.
NYU in New York City. Right. And mom went to, uh, I believe Brooklyn College, uh, got her degree in education
Marie: Which allowed them to pursue jobs that were, you know, that were American.
Absolutely. Absolutely. Absolutely. Um, I guess more of a political sense, why do you think it’s been stigmatized, or excuse me, why do you think that immigration today, large, largely Latinx populations, it has been stigma stigmatized. I mean, Donald Trump himself want, you know, closed, closed, build the wall, you know? Why are people afraid of accepting immigrants today?
Alex: All, all I can tell you is that if there was a wall when we came over, specifically when my parents came over, I wouldn’t be here sitting talking with them here today.
Marie: Sure, sure.
Alex: So, you know, uh, getting into the politics of what’s going on down there and, uh, uh, it, uh, if we start excluding people, if my grandparent, if my parents rather were excluded, we wouldn’t, you wouldn’t be here today, you know? I don’t know what people are scared of, honestly, but… If people just want to come and do good and work hard, hard workers and family oriented and, uh, you know.
Yeah.
I don’t, I don’t, I dunno why people are so scared.
Marie: Yeah. Okay, cool. That kind of, that kind of concludes it. Thank you.
Alex: You’re welcome.
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